Wednesday, November 17, 2004

Prejudice and Bias

"You would sure be a member of some schedule tribe!" {mocking tone}

"I might be from a schedule tribe but you surely look like one." {Very Angry and a defiant tone}

This was a conversation I overheard today between people who are both upwardly mobile and educated. What stuck me was that CASTE/BACKWARD tribes etc. are still used to MOCK at people and people do consider it condesendingly. It is used and considered as an insult. I think it's sad. I don't blame anybody, the prejudices are ingrained in us for a long time now. So what if we are in 21st century. Old prejudices die hard..........some things just don't seem to change.

What I actually wanted to portray through this post was the prevalence of age-old prejudices with reference to caste system. I guess after going through the comments, I thought the discussion went a bit off-track as I didn't want to touch upon Reservations. But I guess one tends to associate Reservations on hearing the very word, SC/ST. RESERVATION is a different point of debate altogether. But well, I think we really can't divorce the two terms now.


Anonymous said...

yup it still happens

who would know better than me....

Vidya said...

I ahve heard my own grandparents say things which actually made me cry. I think something happens to you when you hear people you respect deeply say things which to you seem just simply "wrong"!

Shobha said...

Anon: Oops, that's sad! BTW could you leave behind your name please....

Vidya: I totally get what you are telling......completely!

Shobha said...

I, Me and Media!

BlogBack Closing 13th October 2005.

considering the amount of concessions scheduled tribes get these days … i dont mind converting into a sc/st/vj ;) .. gaalis n mockery n all, i dont mind .. when i can get into a good engg college(any coll/job for dat matter) .. doesnt matter then.. if i have the most fukol marks whihc r lower than the reqd marks .. coz i can get into a good coll for almost no fees .. i can get good jobs without studying.. . in short maja ni life :P & the ones who were cursing each other must have surely been frustrated.. @ being deprived of something which was given to some asshole sc/st candidate ,.. who din deserve it … i can give some examples .. why i myself have cursed some friends of mine … who are sc/st/vj.. ..ask ne one who stoodd like an ass in those engg admission lines… hell!!! .. i was wondering why i wasnt born a gurl during my engg admission:P

2004-11-17 18:25

lol@vighy so rite :)) n yaa re shobz aisaich hai apna dess :))

2004-11-17 18:26

It is a cynical world … it will take generations to wash away/dilute all the filth that one holds in the mind … If one is an acheiver then he/she gets respect whatever the creed or caste …

As Vighy brought out… the current policies put people of good academic merit and those with less but having reservations, on the same platform … from which stems hatred and disrespect… those who work hard and score well in academics lose out to those with reservations who score much lower…

the country is still biased … what was devised to be a quick fix, instead of rectifying or undoing the damage has turned equally discriminatory, but now its the other way round …

2004-11-18 04:27

you see this caste-thing has been there ever since the time of ramayan & mahabharat …how do you expect it to change now??? + Full Support to Vighy!Open category Zindabaaad!

2004-11-18 12:50

Well, Very true…and talk about reservations ! dumb ass people who dunno a shit get admission into nice colleges where as deserving candidates are waiting in the backstand. During Dr.B.R.Ambedkar's langotia days SC/ST people might have been in a really sad state. The reservation system was bought into effect for those people to get a foot hold in the society. But now its being misused by politicians. It's a vote bank. People like V.P.Singh should be —— dead (fill in the blanks :p). As if this is not enough now, K.R.Narayanan was pushing for reservation in private sector, allah !! that would f*** up the whole system. Nyways, Belated birthday wishes :).

2004-11-18 19:52

wht u talking about!!?? sheesh.. i agree with viggy. id convert to a sc st anytime.. sala.. they get all the perks and free quotas and everything.. anyone calls me a brahmin.. i find it insulting!! ^*&%&$%^#%#%#$(^^%…. :P:P and i agree about old prejudices… see how we are with wussy.. we have been like the for 5 years now.. and will be like tht forever.. do u think… even if he goes on to win a nobel prize or a booker prize or even a oscar..we would treat him any differnt… NAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!
okey but seriously.. yeah the sc st prejudice still exists, and for some reason ive observed it more under the marathis… whts shocking is the way guys i known very well behave… one habit i hate of them is the way they ask for the surname!! a remember another frnd of mine ( whos from a back ward class) tel me about it. how our own classmates discriminate against him. for simple things like assignments.. and the worst one can even accuse em. there was a time when prejudice was open. now its become covert.. and so harder to stop. the rot is inside… although outside its all smiles and good nature.. sad really.. :|

2004-11-19 02:46

hmm thats kinda sad …

2004-11-19 08:04

i have never discriminated against any sc/st frnd of mine .. if he was good with me .. i have only cursed/abused or laffed @ some asshole .. who go abt displaying their sc/st tags as if they won some big prize %$@^%# … once i got so frustrated.. dat i had a hearty laff @ a bastard SC frnds broken hand .. afr he had an accident ….buhahaha .. reasons ill tell some othr time:P

2004-11-19 18:55

All this prejudice is inherent in our system and all our politicians make sure they grind it in whenever they get a chance as well…

2004-11-19 21:56

sheesh. This is exactly why i hate coming to your blog. You take up social issues and then i'm tempted to give my views on them. And i end up writing more than the length of your entire page :|

Before I go into all that, I'll comment on your other posts

1. Dollops ice cream - Besharam, behaya. doob mar. akele akele khati hai. >:P. Now you owe me an icecream too.

2. Irritating - buhaha. That you are. 100%. male tc tha kya? you should've flashed those lovely eyes na ;) [cough, splutter. do you know that cows have really pretty eyes?]

I dunno anu malik, and this is the first time i've heard of the show. but yeah, from your description, both suck.

3. Fountainhead - okay, seriously, stop reading d'oh books. i'll get you Harper Lees' "To kill a mockingbird". It's really nice, the kind you'll like.

It is sad that people mock others on the basis of color, caste and other social attributes. Mocking is the _saddest_ aspect of human nature. And I loathe people who do it. (Oi, and I dont mock you haan. I just tease you - pyaar se :p)

Coming back to reservations, I think reservations in education/govt and (now) private sectors should be abolished. Because, I'm not sure it helps. Not anymore. Granted, they were ill treated earlier. But its 50 years hence, and we've come a long way.

The key has been capitalism. {Maybe I'll write more on this later}

Capitalism has brought about a kind of equality which other forces would not have brought. It has broken through the barriers of caste and religion.

Instead of reservations on caste, we need reservations on economic backgrounds. For example, we at IIT, have a nice system called TLL. What happens is if you are economically backward, you get perks. You get free books (paid for by the institute) and the other students contribute to your mess bill and certain other expenses (which amounts to about 1-2 rupees extra per month).

Now, to take Vighy's case:
Ari and I studied for IIT entrance together. We were in the same college, same coaching classes and lived about 5-6 bldgs apart. He was quite smart and put in 30 hours of study a week. I am afraid I am never able to exert myself so in matters of study. Finally, the results were declared. I made it (I think that was because I made out with the director's pretty daughter, but hey! can't blame me. she's HOT AWOOOGAAAH). But he didnt. There were 2 other boys in our coaching classes. They werent that smart. But they got through because they were among the backward classes. It was sad to see the look on Ari's face. Perhaps if there wasnt a 14% reservation at IITs, he would've made it. He had to opt for some god-forsaken college in bihar instead. I am not angry at the other two boys. They are nice people and we are good friends.

Backward classes were given reservations because they were picked upon earlier. And so were financially and socially backward. But now things have changed. Atleast in cities and places where people have equal right to education. Reservations make people who lose their opportunity angry.

Referring to Andy's comment:
Marathi people are the saddest lot.What Andy says is right. Total strangers have started conversations with me with, "Tujha aadnaav kaay aahe?" And when I tell them that, they ask me "Pune jawalche ki …" (Incidently, there is a whole wadi with my surname near Pune. Its mine. Buhaha. No, it isnt.) Then I tell them the name of the village. Pune-ites think, 'oh he is lower than me' and get snobbish. Others think nothing. And if I say, yeah, I'm from that pune-wadi, then the pune people become very happy. And the others think, oh look, he is going to get snobbish. :|

Wait, it gets worse. When I was a child, I remember my grandparents and - to a very tiny extent - my parents telling me, "Don't play with him. He is a mahar". (A mahar is a person of low caste). Or "Play with him. He is bramhin".

:| :| Now I am no bramhin. From what I've learnt, I have tribal roots. We were a people that came out of the forest one day and said, "hey! this is a fine place to live! whoa! we even get clothes to wear and guess what! no more roasted rabbits."

Such was the wonder of clothing and cooked food that many from my jaat went about to take vocations like weaving and farming. Some became traders and merchants. While the others stuck to their tribalistic roots and took up hunting and medicine. My ancestors took up medicine and became vaidyas.

So technically, when the rest of our country was under the golden rule of the Mauryas, we were roaming semi-naked in the forest. Yet, now that we have come out, we adopt this cavalier attitude towards a certain sect of people. It is sad.

But this I have to say, naked or not, my jaat-wale chicks are super drool maal. Almost everybody is delightfully fair (almost kashmiri) and pretty and some have grey eyes drool. Arey, you should see the pic of one of my cousins who is still in my village (not among the ones you've seen). She's the news anchor cousin I told you about. She is my cousin, so I'll refrain from using the D-word :p. And she has two older sisters who are also D- gulp

:-S I seriously need a gf :-S (:P :P :P)

To sum up, the attitute sucks. But its not something that can change easily. It'll take its own sweet time. And what we - the enlightened lot - can do is start with our children and teach them the little things in life.

2004-11-20 08:58

That was a really long comment before this…..

I guess that things still havent changed. Even enough education doesnt imbibe the spirit of a secular and an "equal India"

God know what it will take to change. If ever.

2004-11-21 06:53

Old habits.. die hard! Our politicians are using the divisions and bloating it big! It will take the next generation or two to get this under control.. hopefully

2004-11-21 14:52

this has to do with nothing other than upbringing. i cannot give enough thanks that in my house, criticism was enver endowed in this manner. which is why using race or caste to mock at people is completely alien to me.

2004-11-22 05:42

Gundu: Well, i totally empathise with you Gundu, can get what you are telling. On second thoughts though….what would you be called if you were a girl…..umm…….VIGHNESHWARI….:p BUHAHAHAHAHA! :p

Bhai: Sahi bole!

Kishore: You said it..what was devised as a quick fix solution to a problem did not solve the problem at all, it has just aggravated it further!

Dhinchak: The main purpose of caste system was to divide people on the basis of relegion and was mostly used to ease the administrative process. But well…..the whole idea was skewed beyond recognition! Shit! :|

2004-11-22 17:43

Keshav: Now that's scary….reservations in PRIVATE SECTOR! Good heavens! Waitamin……..that's another point of debate and discussion and a lengthy one at that too…..

Anand: Its all in there……..only its masked now! Yea….that Tumcha adnav kaay? I hate that question!

Pallavi: It sure is

Gundu: U mad :P

Ashwin: Aaaaah! Polictians, another dimension to this discussion! Ah, well..all they do is just stir the rot and do nothing else! * sigh *

2004-11-22 17:54

Dee: See, see…..I give your brain thodasa cerebral exercise it so needs….nahi toh, it will rot inside that skeleton of yours :P :P :P :P
@Irritating: Oh yea? U've dated a cow kya? How dya know about a cow's eyes? Arrey Deva…what's this world come to!
Goodness, I actually read the entire comment! I will surely put up a new post! Not much that i disagree though!

Sat: Lets not feel hopeless Sat!

Prabz: yeaa…hopefully! Glad you dropped by, keep visiting! :)

Manan: I agree with you completely, UPBRINGING is so crucial even in the tiniest of things!

2004-11-22 18:02

honestly….there is no end to this….unless u knock sense into every human on the planet….the scenario ain't gonna change much

2004-11-23 14:51

Shobz… first you overheard that conversation, and now these comments… most of them are extremely racist and people who think that things have changed are living in a fairyland.
And about engg colleges, dudes… IIT is not the fucking end of the world. I agree that its pretty good, but you can surely live without it(and live well at that!!). And if xyz is so good and you believe that xyz would have got into it if the 14% chunk didn't exist…. then don't worry…. IIT or no IIT…this XYZ will go on to make it big..
have had soo many discussions on this… and I've hardly ever seen anyone understand…. don't know why I still bother!

2004-11-23 23:24

^^ yay clap *clap*

2004-11-24 11:54

now i only have one thing to say… before you already jump onto my reply… THINK…
it is in a way a good thing if you looked at it from all angkles possible.
we must be happy that after all that was held against those guys, we can actually laugh the issue off and not crib and kill over it. i repeat THINK

2004-11-24 20:07

everythign accepted but dee pls do not call fountainhead a doh book.

2004-11-24 20:11

Jyoti: Hmmmm

V: ?????

Aamir: I didn't get you Aamir, could you elaborate?

2004-11-25 04:38


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